I have to chime in on this one… it’s just too good to pass up. I agree with most of the Honorable Lum (the Mad)’s points, understand…
Taking the HLtM’s bullet points, one at a time…
PvP should not be the focus of your entire game
Agreed in toto: PvP should feed into a larger goal. My preference is that such goals be about claiming territory or resources… that’s what RL PvP is almost always about, after all. Religious crusades to convert-and/or-destroy the heathens/infidels/unclean (with cynical economic goals for the aristocracy behind the scenes) work okay, too…
PvP should not be a random afterthought
Agreed in toto: but I would note this should be a general rule for any and all subsystems, hardly limited to implementing PvP. If you want something to sUxx0r, tack it on your game as a random/rushed afterthought.
PvP players hate classes
Everyone hates classes (except those who don’t, of course). Actually, I personally think class “hatred” is a simple function of player experience. The more experienced the player, the less comforting and conversely more irritating classes (and their usually contrived limitations on activity) become.
PvP players need classes
I don’t like the wording, but I agree with the sentiment. PvP requires a fair level of tactical transparency. Classes are one way to achieve that. Doom did it with pistols, shotguns, and BFGs. Whatever works.
PvP players detest grinding
True enough, but slightly off-target, IMO. PvP players want to play a PvP game. I know, shocking, isn’t it? Setting up your game such that they have to go through days/weeks/months of PvE (or other hoops/hurdles) to even get to the PvP, let alone have much chance for success, is likely to be viewed with less-than-rapturous-praise as a result.
In the past, PvPers have wanted to reach the “end game” in two weeks because that’s where the game they want to play IS. This is changing (finally). That is good. (Heck, _I_ get this, and I don’t really like PvP. Where does this mental block come from?)
PvP players need some grinding
Agreed in toto. It needs a better bullet point, tho. MMO PvP players need some grinding… there, that’s better.
PvP should not screw new players over
Agreed in toto. Games with a less attentuated power curve in the advancement model(s) would help, but there’s also the problem of player skill…
PvP should screw over someone
This is why I don’t like PvP. But I can’t argue against the need for that dynamic.
“You gotta keep ‘em separated.”
Only true if you want to, like, pay the electricity bill with revenues from your game, or something silly like that. A riff on the old saying: unrestricted PvP=a great way to make yourself a millionaire… if you’re already a billionaire.
But not too separated
Agreed in toto. Striking a reasonable balance in enticements to enter the PvP area can be dicey, but it is necessary. It’s a little like jumping into a lake, I guess: yes, the water is cold, but once you get past the initial shock you’ll be fine…
In the endless player skill argument, you should assume your players don’t have any
And if I’m one of those players, you can be absolutely certain of that.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t reward those players who do
Agreed in toto. And don’t overlook the value of mere bragging rights, with a dollup of shameless promotion on the side…
PvP players are angry and bitter, and will hate you
And this is different from the general MMO audience… how?
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December 14, 2007 at 10:26 am
Lars
I like classes. In “skill-based” games, people end up just using the same build. Battlemages for the win. Plus while it might be more realistic to try to recruit players to adventure with by presenting a list of requirements (must be able to piss off the monsters, have at least five years experience with the axe, communication skills, and familiarity with C#, Visual BASIC, and Microsoft Necromancy” but we’re playing a game here, and we don’t have all day, so its better that we can quickly and instantly identify someone’s role. That’s what classes are good for.
Of course, its also boring if everyone within that role is the same. I think a hybrid system like in Guild Wars where you have your classes (professions) and a nearly infinite number of possible builds within it is the ideal.
December 17, 2007 at 5:01 am
damianov
I don’t “hate” classes per se myself, but they do tend to irritate me over time. Hybrid systems with a lot of options seem to work best for me, tho I would personally prefer to come at them from the other direction… skill-based design, attaining recognition in multiple potential “professions” and “ranks” as you build various sets of abilities and pass tests of various sorts.
Tank-mage syndrome in particular can be mitigated by a variety of other methods… requiring a Harry Potter style wand in hand, instead of a sword, and making switching weapons in mid-combat a relatively risky and non-instantaneous process, for example, or unique stances for each activity, one of which makes casting much easier and efficient, the other of which provides significant bonuses for physical combat. Several potential ways to deal with the issues.
November 11, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Beatriz Fuquay
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