…and no, not just for blog post topics. (Not that I’d turn them down…)
Still putzing away on my little game, and I’m trying to figure out some way to allow the player to build up to a large number of options for actions (i.e. 50 or more after a while), yet not take up half the screen space or require the use of multi-key combinations reminiscent of Twister. Anyone seen or remember anything that might fit the bill?
I can just go with the typical array of icons, of course. I just have this feeling that there should be a better way to do it… which probably means I’ve seen it in the past, but can’t consciously recall it. (The old subconscious is going “knock, knock, anyone home up there?”)
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October 28, 2007 at 10:19 am
Cameron Sorden
I have two suggestions for you, both fairly similar:
1) If you can divide the actions up by category (spells, items, combat moves, tech skills, etc), create a series of boxes at the bottom of the screen that apply to each larger category. When the player clicks on those or presses their hotkey (assign one to each) it pops up a secondary bar which has hot buttons that are mapped on the 1-10 keys. Then maybe give the player an assignable 6-10 slot bar on the right to easily access their frequent skills.
2) Use a wheel-type rotational skill bar. This is a bit more annoying because you have to scroll through your options, but it saves a lot of room and wouldn’t be awful in a turn-based game.
October 28, 2007 at 10:41 am
Aaron
If you’re feeling ambitious, you could try a gesture-recognition system, ala Black & White.
Or you could use a system that combines player actions, so only a fraction of keys/icons need to be involved.
For example, rather than just hitting the “2″ key, the player holds down the key, which activates a radial menu. As long as the key is held down, the player doesn’t have to move the cursor to the radial menu; he just moves the cursor in one of the 4 or 8 directions, let’s go the key, and the command is activated. Depending on whether you used 4 or 8 directions on the radial menu, that would open up 40 to 80 commands just using 10 keys and simple mouse movement.
Or you can use something analogous to a stance system. Switch stances to call up a different set of commands.
That basic premise can be toyed with to seem new, even if it’s basically the same as a dozen other game interfaces. A routing system, for example. Suppose there’s a column of 8 runes on the left side of the screen. Next to those is another rune which may be shifted and locked to any other rune. Locking to different runes could activate different auras or any other command that doesn’t need to be done in the heat of battle.
Another example of a system for such non-tactical commands would be to allow the player to click on different points of a visual. Perhaps, in a bottom corner of the player’s screen is a constellation, fleshed out somewhat to make each individual star easily referenced. The player selects a different command by selecting a different star. This could even be complicated by allowing the player to trace from one star to another, creating combo commands.
Anyway, I hope that gives you ideas.
October 28, 2007 at 10:48 am
Aaron
P.S. If you use a radial system, don’t group commands into one dial by level (ala Neverwinter Nights) or anything like that. Group them by function or another obvoius category. For example, all fire spells in a dial, all trap skills in a dial, and so forth. A radial dial interface is only good if the player doesn’t have to go digging for what he wants. It must feel natural.
Making the commands natural includes considering how the dial-choice direction (up, down, left, up-left, etc) corresponds with the individual command. If the action involves a swinging movement, place it on the left or right of the dial. If it’s throwing something at the enemy, make it up. See what I mean?
October 28, 2007 at 10:58 am
damianov
I’ve been playing with something that sounds a bit like #1, but allowing the player to create their own categories, and maybe even sub-categories.
The rotational skill bar idea, are you thinking something like Troika’s Temple of Elemental Evil radial menu thing? (I think that might have been the thing I had seen that my subconscious was tapping for attention about…) Or something like the Mac desktop menu bar?
Maybe combine the two…
All potential good ideas, regardless. Thank you.
October 28, 2007 at 11:04 am
damianov
Heh, you snuck in there while I was typing, Aaron…
I may play with that directional mouse movement idea. I wonder if it might help create the illusion of being more active in a relatively slowpaced game… which is what I’m kinda trying to trend toward with my designs. More thinking and planning, less reacting… but still measuring in seconds, not minutes. Good idea…
October 28, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Ophelea
Can you give me a specific example of a way it might be used? I have something in the back of my head from and old game and before I go install 3-4 games looking for it I want to make sure I understand what you’re looking for…
October 29, 2007 at 5:25 am
damianov
I’m finding it difficult to express, to be honest. The primary goal is to help the player marshal and utilize potentially dozens of options with relative ease in a fairly typical RPG-like game. Beyond that, I’m wide open to suggestions…
The intent is to implement a relatively standard RPG-style game, with multi-user capability. Display is isometric tile-based, nothing fancy, and a limited window area for that to boot… so I actually have more screen real estate to work with than is otherwise normal.
Usage in game will be somewhat dependent upon specific activity being undertaken, but in general, the experience will not diverge all that heavily (in terms of how play proceeds) from a typical MMORPG like EQ or WoW.
The only aspects that might be a bit odd are that a far greater percentage of activities are preparatory as opposed to expressive (each overt action is likely the result of 2-4 player selections, as opposed to a 1:1 ratio), and thus the play will likely look slower to an observer… there’s more jockeying for position than actual swinging in combat; firing a bow is as much about aiming as releasing; spell effects are as dependent upon the initial “mumbo” as the final “jumbo”; and so on.
There’s also more of a focus on self-control as opposed to impacting others than is typical. In most such games, the vast majority of actions are generally focused on having an effect on some other entity; there are far more “self-impacting” techniques in the design I am looking at. It’s an attempt to achieve/recapture a more reflective, cerebral perspective in a multiplayer RPG, I guess… a step away from Diablo, as opposed to towards it (as seems to be current trend in MMOs).
The raw mechanics of play could be boiled down to a phased/turn-less card-playing paradigm, much like most existing RPG games.
I know I’m not exactly being precise, here… it’s difficult because the details of the human-computer interaction is what I’m looking for inspiration on… describing how it would be used without essentially locking into a specific style of interaction is proving difficult, probably because I’m just misunderstanding what you’re asking for
.
October 29, 2007 at 11:28 am
Ophelea
Ok, before I go installing what I’m not remembering…
Have you looked at Horizons macro design? It’s a simplistic version of what you want but the one thing Horizons always had was a good UI.
In it you built your personalized chained commands in advance, with downtime, etc. – for combat, emotes, crafting…whatever the player wanted – then the player assigned their own art to that and placed it in one of their numerous hotbars.
The downfall was the art/hotbars. But, being players they simply replaced the art provided with their own and developed sets of 10 x 10 hot bars they switched out. So…
The macro style sounds like what you want. Do you need more than 100 keys visible at a time? I always found 100 more than enough and never needed to swith them out. They weren’t intrusive in the least.
BTW, this is similar to an Eastern European game I can’t remember the name of…but if I remember correctly, you did the same: built your chains of commands, DREW art in a small MSPaint-like interface, then set them in blooms. The blooms were basically radial dials that sat on your screen as a single button until you moused-over then it bloomed out with 8-10 other options which you then clicked upon as your final choice.
October 29, 2007 at 12:31 pm
brackishwater
I was going to say the same thing as Aaron with the mouse gestures + radial menu but I am not sure how this would really look with the interface you are describing.
October 30, 2007 at 5:44 am
damianov
@Ophelea: Yep, I’d definitely want to do something with Horizon’s level of customization. The macro capability, though, is one of those things that I would actually somewhat like to reduce the utility of, tho whether that will actually be possible to achieve is a different question.
Despite a relatively “slow” and cerebral style, I do want there to be quite a bit of in-the-moment decision making, taking advantage of specific situations. Long macro strings of actions could imply a bit more “mechanical” perspective than I would prefer to achieve… but I freely admit I’m not sure it’s possible to escape it under this particular paradigm.
I definitely like the “create your own button” concept. Given my lack of artistic talent, it saves me a lot of grief
.
I’m not quite sure how many options I’m going to end up with, or how many a player will need/want of whatever the final list is in any particular situation. Some guidelines…
At present, I have about 120 “skills” defined so far, each of which has 30-40 “techniques” minimum under it, and each technique represents a potential button. However, there’s a bit of overlap to be pruned, and graduation to better versions over time will cut the effective list, and there are multiple situations (combat-related stuff is only about 30% of that list so far)…
Short answer, I don’t really have a good idea yet how many are likely to be needed in any specific situation by any specific player. I do doubt it will be more than 100 at once, though… that’s an almost overwhelming selection to begin with. I would hope I could prune and tune the design to be significantly fewer than that.
@Brackishwater: to be honest, I’m not quite sure either. I’m definitely foggy on the details, but I plan to play with the concept a bit as time allows.