The idea is to bypass the XP concept by having “challenges” of specific ratings. Accomplishing a visit to the hidden burial chamber in the local graveyard might be a Rank 2 challenge, while counting coup on the Orc Chieftain in his lair might be Rank 5, and stealing an egg from a nest on Gryphon’s Loft might be Rank 20.
You then achieve N level by accruing some number of accomplishments (say N+1) of Rank N or above. For example:
- Level 1: 2 accomplishments of Rank 1 or higher
- Level 2: 3 accomplishments of Rank 2 or higher
- Level 3: 4 accomplishments of Rank 3 or higher
- and so on.
As pointed out by some respondents over there, it’s not entirely original, been done in a couple ways before, and has some issues of it’s own… but it’s one that is a little different and interesting, so I thought I’d immortalize it in the blogging realm for those who might not be on the mud-dev list…
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July 30, 2007 at 8:43 am
Lars
I like any type of thinking that attempts to eliminate the levelling mechanism. The achievements model is problematic though since it removes the incentive to help people who haven’t completed an achievement (backflagging). Obviously, the levelling mechanism does that too, to some degree, but so long as someone is within my level range, in most games I still get XP for helping them complete a quest.
On the other hand, if you reward backflagging, you’ll end up having people grind achievements. Similarly, Dungeons and Dragons Online’s quest-oriented focus (XP is awarded mostly for completing quests, and very little from killing monsters) just ended up replacing the mob grinding with quest grinding.
My ideal system would try to replace the combat system with something more skill oriented (card game type play, perhaps, or something akin to Guild Wars combat system) with levels merely serving to gate content. The indie sci-fi shooter MMORPG Vendetta Online had a system like this; higher levels got access to better ships and more equipment, but since it was a twitch-based game, a newbie in the starter ship could still take on high-level veterans and win — if he was better. Therefore even newbies could find a role in the game. Well, at least when I tried it they could. Been a while since I’ve looked at that game.
July 30, 2007 at 8:49 am
Alternatives to XP-based Leveling « MMOre Insight
[...] to XP-based Leveling Posted July 30, 2007 Damianov saw a concept for leveling that involved ranking quests by difficulty and then advancing based on [...]
July 30, 2007 at 10:26 am
damianov
@Lars: actually, depending upon the implementation, it might eliminate the need to backflag entirely. If I understand the system the original poster presented, each level 20 accomplishment (for example) would count toward your achievement count for each and every level from 1 up to 20.
In other words, if you create your character and then immediately complete 4 level 20 quests with the help of a 19th level friend, you are now 3rd level (having completed 4 Rank 3 or higher quests.) Do one more, you are now 4th level (having completed 5 Rank 4 or higher quests), and so on. There’s no reason to go back and do Rank 1 or 2 quests at this point… they gain -neither- character anything in terms of advancement.
Or you could choose to do 2 Rank 1 quests, then 3 Rank 2 quests, then 4 Rank 3 quests, and so on. Perhaps that is the “soloist” path…
It’s a very different perspective, which is what interested me. I actually have several reservations about it, but it forces me down a different line of thought, which is always enlightening for me.
IMO, DDO grinding was at least in part a simple issue of not having enough content at release. You had to redo each dungeon multiple times, because there wasn’t enough unique content at most levels to allow you advance without doing so.
I wish I had time to find the person/blog/book/whatever where XP were described as “fungible”. I keep thinking it was either Raph Koster or Dr. Bartle… I want to go back and re-read that, the logic would inform a deeper perspective here.
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