“If you could make any game you wanted, and were guaranteed not only enough money to build it to your precise specs, but even guaranteed that it would be a success (in other words, setting aside all financial considerations), what would you make?”
This is final entry of a 5 part series exploring some of the pen-and-paper settings which have come to my mind as a result of contemplating that question. Note that, unlike most of my other posts where I refer to PnP RPGs, in this series of posts I’m talking about setting, not system. I’m not presenting in any particular order, either… just posting them as they come to hand while I scan across my bookshelves.
Thieves World
In a previous post in this series, I mentioned I was shying away from including settings that others have done or are working toward doing. Given that, you may well be wondering, what is this doing here?
For those who are unfamiliar with it, Thieves World was/is a setting developed by the author Robert Asprin for a rather successful series of heroic fantasy anthologies. The idea was to create a common, consistent backdrop, then invite a wide variety of authors to write stories using that setting, but exploring their own characters and interests within it. The City of Sanctuary, and the Vulgar Unicorn, inn and tavern in the heart of the Maze, are some of the results of that effort.
Sanctuary and environs was populated rather differently from the typical heroic fantasy setting, however. The dashing and virtuous knight, the powerful wizard, the brawny barbarian made the occasional appearance, there is plenty of magic and swordplay and divine intervention to go around… but the real focus was on a somewhat different social class: these were the stories of the town guardsman (usually on the take), the artful beggar, the alluring (and devious) courtesan, and most of all, your friendly neighborhood thief.
Details
In short, the differences in this setting from most of what has come before would be 1) emphasis on success through subterfuge and subtlety, not “thud and blunder”, and 2) the majority of play would occur within a medieval cityscape.
Sanctuary would not be the only possible option here. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser’s Lankhmar is a similar option, as is Tun Faire of Glen Cook’s Garrett, P.I. fantasy/detective series. Many fantasy worlds developed for pen-and-paper RPG have cities that would serve, as well (Greyhawk, Waterdeep)… DDO was somewhat of an attempt at this type of thing from the Eberron campaign world. In all these cases, you have large cities with widely diverse neighborhood, rampant chaos held barely in check by a weak and largely unconcerned central authority, and all the elements of fantasy crammed in cheek-to-jowl.
However, the core difference here is the focus of play: the cityscape setting simply serves to make the style more logical. Slaughtering everything that moves and everyone that looks at you funny is simply not a viable alternative in a city. The other residents get a bit, shall we say, “tense”, under those circumstances, and find ways to discourage you. Permanently, if necessary. And they outnumber you by a large margin. A measure of restraint and subtlety is required.
This game would focus on subterfuge and deception. Instead of having every activity revolve around seeking out and executing a long series of combats, the game would revolve around largely avoiding or circumventing such situations. Combat is the last resort, not the primary option. There would almost never be a mission that could not be best accomplished through deception, distraction, dissembling, or deceit. Bribery is as common as breathing, thieves guilds negotiate for turns robbing various merchants and temples, and a possession is only considered “yours” for as long you have it in hand (and even that is questionable).
(Some might say that DDO already offers this… not really, to my mind. The number of missions that can be accomplished without encountering some required element of “kill this group to get this key”, “kill this group to activate the rune”, “kill this guardian to open the chest”, and so on is small to the point of vanishing. Even when it is possible, you forego up to 20% of the total possible experience reward to do so. In short, wrong focus.)
There are difficulties, of course. Most true-to-life thief-style operations are solo endeavors, or perhaps 2-3 people… not necessarily the best fit for the MMO (then again, how many times do many players actually successfully gather a group of 6, 8, 10, and hold it together for more than a quest or two?) Combat is a well-defined, well-understood mechanism of play… subterfuge, not so much. However, given the wide-open terms of the question, I wanted to include this on the wishlist, despite the challenges.
Conclusion
Most of my other dream settings were distinctive in terms of “time and place”, with some small element of “style” as a secondary consideration. This setting (and Call of Cthulhu, in some measure) were selected instead to highlight a very different “style” or “focus” of play.
Thieves World isn’t on this list because of how it is like EQ/DAoC/WoW/etc. It’s on my list because of how it is not.
That rounds out my original list. However, as time went by and I scanned across my bookshelf, it became more and more difficult to keep this to the original 5. I’m going to do a followup “honorable mentions” post, I think, just to get some of the others out there as well… too many intriguing ideas to just let them slide back into oblivion, unmentioned even in passing.
As always, commentary is quite welcome. Anyone else who wishes thieves were more than high DPS drones in MMOs?
Now returning you to the far more normal, irregularly scheduled posts…






11 comments
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July 23, 2007 at 8:00 am
tipa
I’m glad you mentioned Leiber’s “Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser” stories
They being the obvious inspiration for Asprin’s “Thieve’s World”. Asprin’s “Mythadventure” series might be something to look at, with its multiplicity of dimensions/potential gameplay.
July 23, 2007 at 8:25 am
Ethic
Oh man, I forgot all about “Thieves’ World”. Thanks for bringing it back up, off to ebay I go.
July 23, 2007 at 11:57 am
Lars
Thanks for the series; I enjoyed it. I never read Thieves’ World but I’ll have to look into it. If the MMO industry is going to stick with its fantasy rut, it would be nice to see it at least move on to another brand of fantasy besides Tolkien.
I’d like to see a multiplayer game that played like Thief, where the emphasis was on sneaking and avoiding detection instead of direct combat.
July 23, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Cyndre
Thieves World was an awesome setting, and I really think an MMO designed around subterfuge, politics, crime etc., if done correctly would be an absolute success.
You mention the difficulty of large scale thieving opperations, but I would point you to R.A. Salvatore’s depiction of Pasha Pook and the Thieves’ Guild of The Icewind Dale Trilogy. (Book 3: The Halfling’s Gem, specifically.) That book simply dripped with intrique, and outright war or killing or slaughter always amounted to problems for the thieves.
In a setting like that you need to create penelties for outright killing. Make it hard to accomplish and the rewards more epic for those who manage success through more subtle means. Have a fame/ infamy system, and every action requires reaction to keep the guards off your back… You rob a wealthy merchant? If you don’t place the right bribe, you have the city watch on you like a pack of dogs… bribe the right people with the right amount before you make a move, and the gate is mysteriously left unlocked, and you dont even need to climb up the walls….
July 23, 2007 at 1:31 pm
damianov
Thanks for the kind words, all. I’m glad you enjoyed the run. Please feel free to link to or pingback from your own blogs with your own lists. I see Lars has his selection up (Doctor Who is in my honorable mentions list, btw), and there have been a few mentions in earlier posts in the series as well.
@Tipa: the reason I didn’t go with Lankhmar as my primary reference is that the stories in particular are far more in the prototypical “wandering adventurer” style, as opposed to really hitting the “thieving” angle hard, especially the novel length stories. Some of the short stories are in the vein I was looking for (“The Two Best Thieves in Lankhmar” comes to mind, heh). But when they head off to Quarmall, or are sailing the Outer Sea, Simorgya, Rime Isle, Castle in the Mist, etc… not quite what I was aiming for, so I put Thieves World up top.
As for Myth Adventures, while I love the series, it would drive me insane as an MMO, I think. Too much Deus Ex Machina. Although I’d love to dive into a rulebook for Dragon Poker someday…
@Ethic: heh, sorry, my friend. I only have one of the books myself, plus the adventure pack I scanned the cover of, of course, or I’d offer to lend them to you, save you a buck or two…
@Lars: I must admit, my exposure to the anthology series itself is limited, although the list of authors involved reads like Who’s Who of sci-fi/fantasy… there’s got to be some good stuff in there somewhere with that list of contributors.
@Cyndre: I agree, it should be quite possible to pull it off. It’s just such a change from what is being done right now that I’m reluctant to proclaim it “easy”. Bribery is a key component of a workable system, definitely, as is fame/infamy. The rest is a bit less clear.
I have to get my hands on the Icewind Dale trilogy again. (Someone borrowed them from me, and never quite got them returned… not even sure who it was, at this point…) A good example to use as a model, tho, I agree.
July 23, 2007 at 1:34 pm
darrenl
Damianov,
Sorry to ask this here, but can you email me with your contact email…something I need to ask you.
…feel free to delete this comment if you want
July 23, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Aaron
It sounds like a cool game setting, but how can something like that be transferred from tabletop to video games? It seems to be heavily dependent on spontaneity and human imagination. I’m sure a great AI system could get you halfway there, but it looks like the sort of thing that would be impossible to simulate completely.
July 23, 2007 at 6:55 pm
damianov
I agree, I doubt an MMO of this sort would get quite to the level that a PnP campaign would… but then again, the same can effectively be said of the prototypical heroic fantasy setting as well.
No offense to WoW and EQ2, but neither holds a candle to a good PnP RPG campaign run by a practiced DM/GM. We’ve still got a ways to go before a strictly automated system will be able to effectively simulate the creativity and imagination of a human ref.
We should be able to recreate at least some of the ambience and excitement, however. Enough to make it an entertaining diversion for a short while, at least…
July 23, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Ethic
Official MUD of Thieves World®
http://www.thieves-world.com/
August 8, 2007 at 5:21 am
Adaen of Bridgewater
An excellent description of Thieves World and why its a cool place to game. I’m going to go back and read the rest of your “5″ now and I’m greatly looking forward to your honorable mentions as well.
~Adaen
September 14, 2009 at 6:40 pm
engram
Im in my mid 30’s now and i remember the first time i pixked up thieves world at a used book store. it was a 1978 reprint. this was one of those books that changed my literary life. i read tolkien as a small child i.e 5-6. the lion the witch and the wardrobe and nothing really got me intrenched like lotr until thieves world. hanse is my fav character of all time. one can only hope they make an mmo of this ip. i know there was a patent for a film at one time, but don’t think it was ever sold.